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Can We Do This Over?
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sunnyblue



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Thu 2/13/20 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good questions. Also, whether all these apologies we're suddenly hearing are really contrite. I don't believe so. I think the players are afraid of more penalties so they think they'd better get that out there.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Thu 2/13/20 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it's interesting how one by one, they are making such statements, as we were promised a few weeks ago that they would.
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Fri 2/14/20 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could not believe their owner saying it made no difference! Then why did they do it?
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Sat 2/15/20 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, Dusty is asking Major League Baseball to protect Astros hitters this year!
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Tue 2/18/20 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's even an O/U on how many times the Astros will get plunked!

And everyone is weighing in on this--from Mike Trout to Rojo Chingon.

Also, Astros shortstop Carlos Correa criticized Cody for his criticism of the Astros' compromising several outcomes of the 2017 season, particularly Cody's comments about Jose Altuve robbing Yankees slugger Aaron Judge of the MVP that season. That story is linked here.

And Commissioner Rob Manfred is doing himself no favors, appearing to cower in the face of the MLBPA. Manfred's comments on-site at Grapefruit League media day have caused some fans to nickname him "Manfraud" and call for his resignation.
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Wed 2/19/20 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I can say is it is a good thing the Dodgers play in the Cactus League and the Astros in the Grapefruit League. According to CBS Sports, the Astros are saying everyone should just shut up about it and especially your boys. Article linked here
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Thu 2/20/20 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is insane. Mike Fiers says he's been getting death threats. Here's the article.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Sat 2/22/20 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the story that will not go away. It's going to hound the Astros all season long and even today with the first preseason games being played, it will be played up with every opponent they have.
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Sat 2/22/20 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it will. I posted in the other thread about their first game, which did not last long!

Josh Reddick has also said he received death threats. Worse yet he says threats have been directed towards his kids/family. That's taking things pretty low.
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Sun 2/23/20 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole subject has taken on a life of its own. The Astros are Public Enemy No. 1 and they are going to find that out all season long.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Thu 2/27/20 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, Alex Bregman got thrown at today. Twisted Evil

From the L.A. Times:

Commentary: "MLB Players Union Finds Representing Astros as Well as Opposing Players Isn’t Easy"


By BILL SHAIKIN, STAFF WRITER
FEB. 20, 2020 4 AM

Tony Clark was hoarse. It had been 37 days since Major League Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred issued the report that branded the Houston Astros as cheaters, more than enough time for the baseball world to digest it, debate it, and move on.

Instead, the sparks of disgust erupted into an inferno of outrage. Instead of letting the fire burn out, Manfred and the Astros tossed log after log onto the blaze.

This metaphor is exhausted. So is Clark’s voice. As the executive director of the players union, he meets with every team during spring training. On Wednesday, he held his first meeting this spring, with the players of the New York Mets.

Clark might have to talk about the report for another month, every time he enters a roomful of players angry that the Astros’ players cheated and got away with it.

The Astros lost their manager, general manager, and a few draft picks. The Astros’ players lost nothing: no suspensions and no forfeiture of the World Series championship they won in 2017, the year Manfred ruled they had cheated.

Wherever a television camera has ventured in spring training, anger has followed, from some of the game’s brightest stars: Mike Trout, Cody Bellinger, Justin Turner, Kris Bryant, Aaron Judge, Giancarlo Stanton.

Clark asks not for sympathy. But he is the guy left to explain to every team why Astros’ players were not punished.

“The rules on the books with regard to sign stealing clearly lay out that clubs and club personnel can be disciplined, and not players,” Clark said.

Before Manfred issued his report, did the union’s executive board — the elected player leadership — discuss whether players ought to be disciplined anyway?

“This wasn’t a situation where there was a conversation,” Clark said. “That’s what the rules stated. In order for that consideration to be made going forward, there’s going to have to be a change or an amendment to the rules.”

Manfred might have explained that in his report, perhaps this way: Players were granted immunity, because we needed their testimony to get to the truth, and because our rules did not permit player discipline in this area. We look forward to working with the union to strengthen those rules.

Instead, over nine pages in which the word “immunity” never appeared but “transparency” did, Manfred wrote that the Astros’ players would not be disciplined because it would have been “difficult and impractical” — difficult to determine the degree of responsibility among individual players, impractical because so many of those players by now had joined other teams.

Clark must balance the wishes of Astros’ players against the wishes of players who hate the Astros. He could survey all the players, on a secret ballot, about whether the Astros should be stripped of their title. If an overwhelming majority voted yes, he could challenge Manfred to do it.

But why risk fracturing his membership with collective bargaining set to take place next year, when Clark will need a unified front more than ever? Better to look ahead, toward preventing another scandal rather than continuing to argue about this one.

“The player voice here is going to be dictating the best way for us to move forward,” Clark said, “both in the use of technology on and off the field, and with regard to the integrity of the game in general.”

What players want, Clark said, is continued access to video during games, using customized software that would allow a hitter to review his previous at-bats, with the video clips not starting until after the catcher has flashed the signs. That said, Clark indicated players are in favor of limitations on video.

“Guys want the replay room removed,” he said. “Guys want to talk about replay in general. Guys want to talk about removal of the live feed. Guys want to talk about removal of cameras, standardization of cameras in each of the ballparks, and they want to know where each of those cameras are and what each of those cameras do. They also want access to the information the cameras are providing, both on individual players and as a group.

“And they want to talk about a form of discipline associated with the particular nuances of this issue.”

Manfred has said public shaming might be discipline enough for the Astros, which presumes they can be shamed. But their owner, Jim Crane, said that he did not believe he should be held accountable, and that the sign stealing might not have had an impact. Their shortstop, Carlos Correa, said the Astros won the World Series “fair and square.”

None of those comments quieted the storm. Neither did Manfred dismissing the World Series championship trophy as “a piece of metal,” a remark for which he later apologized.

On the other end of the telephone, Clark still sounded hoarse. Does he believe the anger the last two weeks was a response to what the Astros did by stealing signs, or to how the commissioner and the Astros have dealt with it?

Clark chuckled. He paused, for nine long seconds. He eventually offered an indirect answer, but the chuckle and the long pause spoke volumes.
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Thu 2/27/20 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not envy Tony Clark! Most of the players are very much against what one small group of them did.
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Sat 2/29/20 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This makes it look even worse that they took no action. MLB warned the Astros and Red Sox both in 2018. Here is the link
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Fri 3/6/20 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodger fans cheered Mike Fiers at CBRG this week. On the other hand, he did no-hit them in 2015, so...

Anyway, this is from today's L.A. Times--pretty funny: Smile

Column: "How far should Dodgers fans go to troll the cheating Astros?"

By LZ GRANDERSON COLUMNIST
MARCH 5, 2020 6:05 PM

I’m wearing an Oakland "A"s T-shirt that’s 10% cotton and 90% petty.

I’ve never bought anything affiliated with the franchise before, largely because I’m not a fan of the team or Kelly green. I don’t foresee purchasing any "A"s merchandise in the future either. The only reason why this shirt is on my back now is because of the name and number printed down its center: 50 Fiers.

The Houston Astros cheated and Mike Fiers shined the brightest light on their scheme. So the petty in me spent about $45 on an "A"s shirt to troll the Astros because I love the Dodgers. If that feels a bit excessive, tell that to Mike Bolsinger, who hasn’t pitched in the major leagues since the Astros drummed the hell out of him Aug. 4, 2017. He has since filed a civil lawsuit.

I’m not there … but I’m somewhere.

This is why I keep staring at the Ticketmaster website, trying to determine if I want to take this hideous "A"s T-shirt down to Anaheim so I can troll the Astros when they face the Angels because I love the Dodgers. This sign-stealing scandal has turned me into the jilted lover who needs closure, only the ex is unwilling to provide it so I follow them on Instagram to see if they are dating someone new. If that feels like a lot, tell that to Clayton Kershaw, Yu Darvish and Dave Roberts.

Some fans were so angry after last year’s Game 5 defeat to the Washington Nationals in the National League Division Series, a game in which Kershaw couldn’t hold a 3-1 lead in the eighth, that they, one after the other, drove over a No. 22 jersey as they pulled out of Dodger Stadium. Regrettably, I include myself in that embarrassing display of anger. Had the Astros not cheated in 2017, things probably wouldn’t have deteriorated to the point that the greatest Dodgers pitcher since Sandy Koufax felt compelled to confess “everything people say is true right now about the postseason.”

Dominoes.

You never know where inspiration will strike.

Ripples.

The butterfly effect.

Nothing to do about it now. At this point the more pressing question is how far down the abyss will I — will we, as Dodgers fans — allow the Astros’ albatross to drag us? Do we hate-watch their games on TV? Go to the All-Star game at Dodger Stadium just to boo whomever represents Houston? I’ve already purchased this kelly green T-shirt. Why wait the extra week for the April 3-5 series against the Angels? Should I just hop on a plane and boo with the other "A"s fans when Houston comes to Oakland at the end of March? Do I attend both? Maybe I should reach out to Iyanla Vanzant and ask her to come fix my life? To be honest, I already have — she didn’t call me back.

At a certain point you have to stop being the guy who can’t stop talking about the breakup. At least that’s what I’ve been told. Anyway the reason why I’ve used multiple relationship analogies in this column is because my heart is genuinely broken. I’m also acutely aware of the unhealthy partnership I have with the Astros. They don’t care about me. They don’t even know me.

Us.

And yet, they wield a great deal of power because it’s just so damn hard to move on. The Astros have tarnished legacies, ruined careers, and stolen money out of the pockets of those who least can afford it, like vendors and clubhouse staff. The franchise doesn’t even have the humanity to properly apologize in large part because the commissioner didn’t have enough guts to vacate the fraudulent title. So the Houston players, owner and fans get to enter this upcoming season wondering what can be while men like Kershaw and Bolsinger continue to be haunted by the ghost of what might’ve been.
Anthony Rizzo of the Chicago Cubs can zing them on air during spring training; Alex Rodriguez, also on air, can signal his more contrite response to his own sins; opposing pitchers can flat-out hit them. Still, they get to call themselves champions.

So I will cheer for their failure.

I will face the I-5 traffic.

I will contemplate a trip up north, have my boos heard by a franchise with no ears.

Confucius warned that when embarking on a journey of revenge, one should dig two graves. For the 2020 season I’ve accepted this fate … just as long as one of the holes is for the Astros’ unearned World Series trophy and the other is for this ugly Kelly green t-shirt.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Fri 3/13/20 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A week ago, I was counting down the days until the 2020 season began and the "Dodgers Revenge Tour" could officially get underway. I was waiting with a devilish glee Twisted Evil to see how many times the Astros could be plunked in a season. And now, well...this sure takes the air out of that anticipation. Crying or Very sad
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Fri 3/27/20 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, how this one dropped out of our sight and minds means it took a backseat to the big story of when or whether the season will actually be played.

But I wanted to at least update that MLB has concluded their investigation of the Red Sox' scandal. So let's wait to see what those results disclose.
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Tue 4/14/20 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not at all surprised about this happening but I'm surprised I just now found out about it. On April 3 a New York judge dismissed a lawsuit against the Red Sox, Astros and MLB by fantasy bettors regarding the sign stealing scandals. Here's an article from MSN.com.
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Wed 4/22/20 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodger ladies, I just happened to notice it pop up while I was posting here, but the Red Sox penalties have been handed down - article linked here
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Thu 4/23/20 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's weird! I could swear I posted in response to this late yesterday, but the post isn't showing up, so, I'll just say--hey, how about that video scoreboard operator? Wink
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Fri 4/24/20 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, let's all boo J.T. Watkins from afar. That's the way you do it, Red Sox. Find a scapegoat nobody has heard of. Here's an article about him.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Wed 4/29/20 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the L.A. Times:

"Dodgers-Loving Historic Bakersfield Theater Taunts the Astros on its Marquee"

The Fox Theater in Bakersfield displays a rather popular message (among Dodger fans) about the outcome of the 2017 World Series between the Dodgers and Houston Astros.

By BILL SHAIKIN, STAFF WRITER
APRIL 28, 2020 11:14 AM

The Fox Theater in Bakersfield dates to 1930, a grand old venue that presented some of the first talking motion pictures. Nearly a century later, the Fox hosts concerts, comedy, movies and community events, including local ballet companies and school graduations.

The venue is dark now, shut down because of the coronavirus crisis. With no events, what did the Fox display on its marquee?

“It was blank,” theater manager Matthew Spindler said. “I never felt good about putting something up.”

Until Sunday, that is, when the marquee suddenly displayed this message:

NEVER FORGET

HOUSTON ASTERISKS

LET’S GO DODGERS


The Fox is part of the National Independent Venue Assn. (NIVA), which formed two weeks ago to represent more than 800 community halls, including such institutions as the Troubadour in West Hollywood, Preservation Jazz Hall in New Orleans, and Bowery Ballroom in New York. As the scope of the coronavirus crisis became increasingly dire, NIVA pleaded for inclusion in federal relief programs.

“Our passionate and fiercely independent operators are not ones to ask for handouts,” the association’s president wrote to Congress last week. “But because of our unprecedented, tenuous position, for the first time in history there is legitimate fear for our collective existence.”

At the same time, Spindler and his staff brainstormed ways to pay bills that go on even when the show does not. The Fox invited residents to rent the marquee for a day, to brighten spirits around town.

“Whether it be an inspirational quote, lyrics from a song, a special graduation message, a dare to your favorite artist, or a confession of love,” the invitation reads, “we hope you’ll help us preserve this historic landmark and allow us to continue making memories for our community now and in the future.”

Spindler thought about what message he would put up.

“The only thing I was thinking about,” he said, “was how much I hated the Astros.”

Spindler, born in Tarzana, is a lifelong Dodgers fan. The Astros, you might have heard, are guilty of cheating in 2017, the year they beat the Dodgers in the World Series.

The Astros were scheduled to play the Angels on April 3, and thousands of Dodgers fans planned to assemble at Angel Stadium to boo the Astros. Spindler would have been one of them, and he had explained to his staff why he would not be on hand that night at the Fox.

“I have to go to Anaheim to start the cheating chants,” he said.

That opportunity was lost, but the marquee program offered another. Spindler said he wanted to raise awareness of the theater’s precarious financial situation, but he also wanted to generate smiles during a stressful time.

So, for the first day of the marquee program, he taunted the Astros in the front and promoted NIVA on the side (“SAVE OUR STAGES”).

He also taunted former San Francisco Giants pitcher Madison Bumgarner about the incident last June when the Dodgers’ Max Muncy hit a home run off him into the San Francisco Bay and the two exchanged words while Muncy trotted around the bases (HEY MADBUM GET IT OUT OF THE OCEAN) and saluted the Dodgers’ legendary broadcaster, Vin Scully, with his trademark greeting: “IT’S TIME FOR DODGER BASEBALL.”

“I didn’t want a cliché message that’s been done before,” Spindler said. “I was hoping to get people to think about what we should have been thinking and talking about before this COVID situation started.

“Baseball is American, and trash talking between teams is what we should be doing.”
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Thu 4/30/20 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha - other vacant marquees should do that too.
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Thu 5/14/20 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG how petty this is. The Astros are taunting us back with a "Kiss Our Asterisk" sign in Houston. Bad enough to be cocky but being cocky about cheating especially when the only 1 championship your team has is the one you cheated in, is really ballsy. Here's an article from a Houston digital news site
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Sat 5/16/20 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bragging about it--SMH! Mad
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PostPosted: Wed 7/22/20 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I had to go there and resurrect this thread.

What We Lose When We Can't Boo the Astros on Opening Day

Also, included in this article are a few nuggets about booing on Opening Day, in general, from past seasons.
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Thu 7/23/20 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Royals played an exhibition game against the Astros on Tuesday and 3 players were hit by pitches by K.C. pitchers. This might be a fun season just to keep tabs on that. Wink
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Tue 7/28/20 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, here we are and the night has arrived, but with much less fanfare given the world situations.

Go Dodgers!
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Wed 7/29/20 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe Kelly was suspended by MLB for 8 games! Why? He may have taunted them and threw close but does that deserve 8 games, and especially in a 60 game season that sounds like sour grapes.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Wed 7/29/20 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, and I was listening to the pregame on my way home from an appointment, and Rick was mentioning how MLB had vowed to protect the Astros this year. It's ridiculous. By that, I mean that the individual punishment for retaliation is worse than any of the Astros players received for the cheating. SMH.
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Fri 7/31/20 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion Orel should probably stop talking about the cheating. He keeps saying he views the Dodgers as 2017 world champions. I think we saw it was made clear that none of our fans want a championship handed to the team just because the other team cheated. I just wish we had one chance for the 2 teams to replay Game 7 with what we know now. It's a shame what happened but it cannot be undone.
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