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Can We Do This Over?
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sunnyblue



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
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Location: San Diego County, CA

PostPosted: Thu 2/13/20 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good questions. Also, whether all these apologies we're suddenly hearing are really contrite. I don't believe so. I think the players are afraid of more penalties so they think they'd better get that out there.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Thu 2/13/20 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it's interesting how one by one, they are making such statements, as we were promised a few weeks ago that they would.
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forloveofthegame



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Fri 2/14/20 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could not believe their owner saying it made no difference! Then why did they do it?
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sunnyblue



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sat 2/15/20 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, Dusty is asking Major League Baseball to protect Astros hitters this year!
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Tue 2/18/20 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's even an O/U on how many times the Astros will get plunked!

And everyone is weighing in on this--from Mike Trout to Rojo Chingon.

Also, Astros shortstop Carlos Correa criticized Cody for his criticism of the Astros' compromising several outcomes of the 2017 season, particularly Cody's comments about Jose Altuve robbing Yankees slugger Aaron Judge of the MVP that season. That story is linked here.

And Commissioner Rob Manfred is doing himself no favors, appearing to cower in the face of the MLBPA. Manfred's comments on-site at Grapefruit League media day have caused some fans to nickname him "Manfraud" and call for his resignation.
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forloveofthegame



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed 2/19/20 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I can say is it is a good thing the Dodgers play in the Cactus League and the Astros in the Grapefruit League. According to CBS Sports, the Astros are saying everyone should just shut up about it and especially your boys. Article linked here
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sunnyblue



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Thu 2/20/20 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is insane. Mike Fiers says he's been getting death threats. Here's the article.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Sat 2/22/20 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the story that will not go away. It's going to hound the Astros all season long and even today with the first preseason games being played, it will be played up with every opponent they have.
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sunnyblue



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sat 2/22/20 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it will. I posted in the other thread about their first game, which did not last long!

Josh Reddick has also said he received death threats. Worse yet he says threats have been directed towards his kids/family. That's taking things pretty low.
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Sun 2/23/20 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole subject has taken on a life of its own. The Astros are Public Enemy No. 1 and they are going to find that out all season long.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Thu 2/27/20 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, Alex Bregman got thrown at today. Twisted Evil

From the L.A. Times:

Commentary: "MLB Players Union Finds Representing Astros as Well as Opposing Players Isn’t Easy"


By BILL SHAIKIN, STAFF WRITER
FEB. 20, 2020 4 AM

Tony Clark was hoarse. It had been 37 days since Major League Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred issued the report that branded the Houston Astros as cheaters, more than enough time for the baseball world to digest it, debate it, and move on.

Instead, the sparks of disgust erupted into an inferno of outrage. Instead of letting the fire burn out, Manfred and the Astros tossed log after log onto the blaze.

This metaphor is exhausted. So is Clark’s voice. As the executive director of the players union, he meets with every team during spring training. On Wednesday, he held his first meeting this spring, with the players of the New York Mets.

Clark might have to talk about the report for another month, every time he enters a roomful of players angry that the Astros’ players cheated and got away with it.

The Astros lost their manager, general manager, and a few draft picks. The Astros’ players lost nothing: no suspensions and no forfeiture of the World Series championship they won in 2017, the year Manfred ruled they had cheated.

Wherever a television camera has ventured in spring training, anger has followed, from some of the game’s brightest stars: Mike Trout, Cody Bellinger, Justin Turner, Kris Bryant, Aaron Judge, Giancarlo Stanton.

Clark asks not for sympathy. But he is the guy left to explain to every team why Astros’ players were not punished.

“The rules on the books with regard to sign stealing clearly lay out that clubs and club personnel can be disciplined, and not players,” Clark said.

Before Manfred issued his report, did the union’s executive board — the elected player leadership — discuss whether players ought to be disciplined anyway?

“This wasn’t a situation where there was a conversation,” Clark said. “That’s what the rules stated. In order for that consideration to be made going forward, there’s going to have to be a change or an amendment to the rules.”

Manfred might have explained that in his report, perhaps this way: Players were granted immunity, because we needed their testimony to get to the truth, and because our rules did not permit player discipline in this area. We look forward to working with the union to strengthen those rules.

Instead, over nine pages in which the word “immunity” never appeared but “transparency” did, Manfred wrote that the Astros’ players would not be disciplined because it would have been “difficult and impractical” — difficult to determine the degree of responsibility among individual players, impractical because so many of those players by now had joined other teams.

Clark must balance the wishes of Astros’ players against the wishes of players who hate the Astros. He could survey all the players, on a secret ballot, about whether the Astros should be stripped of their title. If an overwhelming majority voted yes, he could challenge Manfred to do it.

But why risk fracturing his membership with collective bargaining set to take place next year, when Clark will need a unified front more than ever? Better to look ahead, toward preventing another scandal rather than continuing to argue about this one.

“The player voice here is going to be dictating the best way for us to move forward,” Clark said, “both in the use of technology on and off the field, and with regard to the integrity of the game in general.”

What players want, Clark said, is continued access to video during games, using customized software that would allow a hitter to review his previous at-bats, with the video clips not starting until after the catcher has flashed the signs. That said, Clark indicated players are in favor of limitations on video.

“Guys want the replay room removed,” he said. “Guys want to talk about replay in general. Guys want to talk about removal of the live feed. Guys want to talk about removal of cameras, standardization of cameras in each of the ballparks, and they want to know where each of those cameras are and what each of those cameras do. They also want access to the information the cameras are providing, both on individual players and as a group.

“And they want to talk about a form of discipline associated with the particular nuances of this issue.”

Manfred has said public shaming might be discipline enough for the Astros, which presumes they can be shamed. But their owner, Jim Crane, said that he did not believe he should be held accountable, and that the sign stealing might not have had an impact. Their shortstop, Carlos Correa, said the Astros won the World Series “fair and square.”

None of those comments quieted the storm. Neither did Manfred dismissing the World Series championship trophy as “a piece of metal,” a remark for which he later apologized.

On the other end of the telephone, Clark still sounded hoarse. Does he believe the anger the last two weeks was a response to what the Astros did by stealing signs, or to how the commissioner and the Astros have dealt with it?

Clark chuckled. He paused, for nine long seconds. He eventually offered an indirect answer, but the chuckle and the long pause spoke volumes.
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forloveofthegame



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu 2/27/20 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not envy Tony Clark! Most of the players are very much against what one small group of them did.
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sunnyblue



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sat 2/29/20 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This makes it look even worse that they took no action. MLB warned the Astros and Red Sox both in 2018. Here is the link
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Fri 3/6/20 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodger fans cheered Mike Fiers at CBRG this week. On the other hand, he did no-hit them in 2015, so...

Anyway, this is from today's L.A. Times--pretty funny: Smile

Column: "How far should Dodgers fans go to troll the cheating Astros?"

By LZ GRANDERSON COLUMNIST
MARCH 5, 2020 6:05 PM

I’m wearing an Oakland "A"s T-shirt that’s 10% cotton and 90% petty.

I’ve never bought anything affiliated with the franchise before, largely because I’m not a fan of the team or Kelly green. I don’t foresee purchasing any "A"s merchandise in the future either. The only reason why this shirt is on my back now is because of the name and number printed down its center: 50 Fiers.

The Houston Astros cheated and Mike Fiers shined the brightest light on their scheme. So the petty in me spent about $45 on an "A"s shirt to troll the Astros because I love the Dodgers. If that feels a bit excessive, tell that to Mike Bolsinger, who hasn’t pitched in the major leagues since the Astros drummed the hell out of him Aug. 4, 2017. He has since filed a civil lawsuit.

I’m not there … but I’m somewhere.

This is why I keep staring at the Ticketmaster website, trying to determine if I want to take this hideous "A"s T-shirt down to Anaheim so I can troll the Astros when they face the Angels because I love the Dodgers. This sign-stealing scandal has turned me into the jilted lover who needs closure, only the ex is unwilling to provide it so I follow them on Instagram to see if they are dating someone new. If that feels like a lot, tell that to Clayton Kershaw, Yu Darvish and Dave Roberts.

Some fans were so angry after last year’s Game 5 defeat to the Washington Nationals in the National League Division Series, a game in which Kershaw couldn’t hold a 3-1 lead in the eighth, that they, one after the other, drove over a No. 22 jersey as they pulled out of Dodger Stadium. Regrettably, I include myself in that embarrassing display of anger. Had the Astros not cheated in 2017, things probably wouldn’t have deteriorated to the point that the greatest Dodgers pitcher since Sandy Koufax felt compelled to confess “everything people say is true right now about the postseason.”

Dominoes.

You never know where inspiration will strike.

Ripples.

The butterfly effect.

Nothing to do about it now. At this point the more pressing question is how far down the abyss will I — will we, as Dodgers fans — allow the Astros’ albatross to drag us? Do we hate-watch their games on TV? Go to the All-Star game at Dodger Stadium just to boo whomever represents Houston? I’ve already purchased this kelly green T-shirt. Why wait the extra week for the April 3-5 series against the Angels? Should I just hop on a plane and boo with the other "A"s fans when Houston comes to Oakland at the end of March? Do I attend both? Maybe I should reach out to Iyanla Vanzant and ask her to come fix my life? To be honest, I already have — she didn’t call me back.

At a certain point you have to stop being the guy who can’t stop talking about the breakup. At least that’s what I’ve been told. Anyway the reason why I’ve used multiple relationship analogies in this column is because my heart is genuinely broken. I’m also acutely aware of the unhealthy partnership I have with the Astros. They don’t care about me. They don’t even know me.

Us.

And yet, they wield a great deal of power because it’s just so damn hard to move on. The Astros have tarnished legacies, ruined careers, and stolen money out of the pockets of those who least can afford it, like vendors and clubhouse staff. The franchise doesn’t even have the humanity to properly apologize in large part because the commissioner didn’t have enough guts to vacate the fraudulent title. So the Houston players, owner and fans get to enter this upcoming season wondering what can be while men like Kershaw and Bolsinger continue to be haunted by the ghost of what might’ve been.
Anthony Rizzo of the Chicago Cubs can zing them on air during spring training; Alex Rodriguez, also on air, can signal his more contrite response to his own sins; opposing pitchers can flat-out hit them. Still, they get to call themselves champions.

So I will cheer for their failure.

I will face the I-5 traffic.

I will contemplate a trip up north, have my boos heard by a franchise with no ears.

Confucius warned that when embarking on a journey of revenge, one should dig two graves. For the 2020 season I’ve accepted this fate … just as long as one of the holes is for the Astros’ unearned World Series trophy and the other is for this ugly Kelly green t-shirt.
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dodgerblue6



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 3/13/20 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A week ago, I was counting down the days until the 2020 season began and the "Dodgers Revenge Tour" could officially get underway. I was waiting with a devilish glee Twisted Evil to see how many times the Astros could be plunked in a season. And now, well...this sure takes the air out of that anticipation. Crying or Very sad
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Fri 3/27/20 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, how this one dropped out of our sight and minds means it took a backseat to the big story of when or whether the season will actually be played.

But I wanted to at least update that MLB has concluded their investigation of the Red Sox' scandal. So let's wait to see what those results disclose.
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