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A Rose is Still a Rose

 
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dodgerblue6



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Wed 12/31/14 10:26 pm    Post subject: A Rose is Still a Rose Reply with quote

Since I'm catching up on overlooked topics from this year tonight, the one never-ending debate that we didn't address was the 25th anniversary of Pete Rose's ban from baseball. I still have not seen the ESPN special, "25 Years in Exile", that aired on this topic in August.

Personally, it's a done deal; he made his bed, let him lie in it. And I'm offended by Keith Olbermann's "moral necessity" argument. If anything, the "moral necessity" is quite the opposite.

"Read the Dowd Report", I always say, as we've discussed in previous threads on the topic. Thanks to Harpo for posting the link to it many years ago, I actually did.
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"The Dodgers have always occupied an enormous place in the history of the game. If the Yankees are the most successful team in baseball history, the Dodgers are the most essential. Their legacy is unique."

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Last edited by dodgerblue6 on Sun 1/18/15 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Thu 1/1/15 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was a big fan of his at one time, too. One of my favorite players who was not a Padre. And I still remember him getting his record breaking hit against us. It is just too bad he did not decide to be contrite earlier.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Sun 1/18/15 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howard Cole's blog entry ("Just what part of lifetime ban don't you understand?"), posted during Hall of Fame announcement week, presents a firm and clear response to the apologists.

I don't wish to continually argue this point, but he took the words out of my keyboard.
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Tue 3/17/15 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see where this is rearing its ugly head again. Rose has petitioned for reinstatement. Article from mlb.com

I am disappointed in Tony Clark for supporting this.
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Sat 3/21/15 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wall Street Journal has an essay about how Rose should be forgiven. I am seeing it posted on a lot of pages but I still cannot agree. Article from wsj.com
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Mon 6/22/15 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you seen the latest, Linda? Now they can add betting on baseball as a player to Rose's Hall of shame credentials. Article from mlb.com
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Mon 6/22/15 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, and the apologists are still around, but aren't quite as loud.

Who among us is surprised, since everything he's maintained over the years about whether he did or didn't bet, whether as a manager or as a player, has been later proven to be a lie?
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Sun 7/12/15 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because of the upcoming All-Star Game in Cincinnati, we're hearing more and more about the controversial Mr. Rose these days.

From today's L.A. Times:

"Tom Lasorda Believes Pete Rose Deserves to be Banned From Baseball"

By BILL SHAIKIN

It has been 37 years since Tom Lasorda managed his first All-Star Game. The first batter in Lasorda's first All-Star lineup: Pete Rose.

It has been 17 years since Lasorda relinquished his executive authority with the Dodgers. His involvement since then could suggest a path toward redemption for Rose, although Lasorda would not grant mercy to him.

The All-Star game is Tuesday in Cincinnati, with Bryce Harper and Mike Trout forced to share the spotlight with Rose.

Rose is the major leagues' all-time hits leader, and Cincinnati's favorite son. As Rose reminded reporters on a conference call last week, you can walk out of the Reds' ballpark and onto Pete Rose Way. He'll be at the ballpark for Monday's workout day, as an analyst for Fox, and he'll participate in an on-field ceremony before the game.

In 1989, Rose was banned for life for betting on baseball. Rob Manfred, baseball's first-year commissioner, has promised to meet with Rose and consider his request for reinstatement.

Rose said he is "elated" that Manfred will reconsider his status. When we asked whether Rose might accept something short of an unconditional reinstatement, he said yes.

"When you're in my situation, you're open to almost anything," Rose said. For a generation, Lasorda has been an ambassador for the Dodgers, and for baseball. He is a cheerleader, an adviser, a preacher of the Dodgers gospel far and wide. When he is in attendance at Dodger Stadium, he basks in the applause.

That could be a template for a kind of limited reinstatement for Rose — no involvement in the day-to-day operations of a team, but a chance to appear on behalf on the Reds at the ballpark and in the community.

Lasorda would not endorse that path. He would not forgive Rose, either.

"You have got to be out," Lasorda said. "He has got to be suspended for life."

That is the punishment specified in major league Rule 21(d), and it makes no difference whether Rose gambled as a player or as a manager. The rule is posted prominently in every clubhouse: any "player, umpire, or club or league official or employee" betting on a game in which he is involved "shall be declared permanently ineligible."

Said Lasorda: "If you are stupid enough to go out and bet on your own team and bet on baseball, there has got to be something wrong. If my brother did it, I'd say the same thing."

Tom Lasorda's major league career started with the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1954. He pitched two seasons for the Dodgers before going on to play with the Kansas City Athletics. After retiring in 1960, Lasorda became a scout for the Dodgers.

There is the question of deterrence, whether a player or manager might take a chance on betting in the future knowing that a lifetime ban might mean something less than a lifetime. And there is the question of mercy, whether a 74-year-old man who has been banned from the game he loves for a third of his life has suffered enough.

Lasorda takes the hard line, without apology.

"I'm not afraid to come out and say it," Lasorda said. "Pete and I are friends. But he did something wrong, and it was terrible. You represent an organization. Wherever I go, I'm not Tommy Lasorda from Norristown, Pa. I'm Tommy Lasorda from the Dodgers.

"It's not a question of getting a front office job, or anything like that. He got suspended. He is completely out of the game."
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Mon 7/13/15 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Tommy, which you know from reading my opinions. At some point they have to take a hard line on this stuff.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Tue 7/14/15 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know the adoring crowd in Cincinnati will shower him with love tonight, but it should be interesting to see what's next. More from Howard Cole's column...
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Thu 7/16/15 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howard Cole has it right.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Tue 10/6/15 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had to bump this up because I understand we'll be hearing from Commissioner Manfred on a decision by the end of the year.

Also, from the L.A. Times:

"Don't Bet on Pete Rose Getting Into Hall of Fame"

by Bill Shaikin

September 26, 2015

Pete Rose is 74. He is too old to manage a team, even with baseball's blessing, too long removed from a rapidly evolving game. And, if the Cincinnati Reds would like him to entertain potential ticket buyers or headline a fantasy camp, who cares?

On Friday, after the announcement that Rose had made his case for reinstatement in a meeting with Commissioner Rob Manfred, the urgency surrounded only one question: Could baseball's all-time hits leader be heading toward induction in the Hall of Fame?

Don't bet on it.

First, a tip of the cap to Manfred, who promised to make a decision within three months. Manfred's predecessor, Bud Selig, met with Rose in 2002, then left him in limbo for 13 years. Closure, for Rose and for all of us.

In 1989, Rose was banished for life, after an exhaustive report concluded he gambled on baseball. In his meeting last week, Manfred afforded Rose the opportunity to present any new evidence that might prompt the Commissioner to reconsider the lifetime ban.

However, Rose's credibility has been damaged since 1989. He insisted he did not bet on baseball as a manager, then acknowledged he did, as detailed in baseball's investigative report. He then insisted he did not bet on baseball as a player, then ESPN uncovered documents this year that showed he did.

Manfred has no authority to keep Rose out of the Hall of Fame. However, the Hall of Fame declared in 1991 that any person on the banned list could not be inducted.

If Manfred were to lift the ban, in full or with restrictions, Rose could be considered for the Hall by an expansion-era Veterans' Committee, made up of Hall of Fame members, executives, and media members.

Hall of Fame members toe a particularly hard line, and it is difficult to imagine how they would look favorably on Rose, who shows up regularly in Cooperstown, N.Y., for induction weekend, selling autographs and stealing at least part of the show.

Dodgers Hall of Fame Manager Tom Lasorda, who served on the last such committee in 2013, told The Times in July: "If you are stupid enough to go out and bet on your own team and bet on baseball, there has got to be something wrong."
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Tue 12/15/15 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To nobody's surprise, Commissioner Rob Manfred has made his decision, and Pete Rose's ban has been upheld.

On the matter of Hall of Fame eligibility, Manfred has stated that it is a separate issue.
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Fri 12/18/15 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt he will ever take no for an answer.
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Fri 8/4/17 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure you ladies have heard about the allegations against Pete Rose about statutory rape when he was a player in the 1970s. The Washington Post and of course many other media outlets reported it, too. It would not surprise me if this is true.

Wapo article link is here
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Sat 8/5/17 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes

Yeah, Charlie Hustle did just that. He "thought she was 16." Mad

At least Steve Garvey's dalliances were all adults!
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"The Dodgers have always occupied an enormous place in the history of the game. If the Yankees are the most successful team in baseball history, the Dodgers are the most essential. Their legacy is unique."

-Baseball Hall of Fame


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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Sat 8/5/17 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is, I do not think there is anyone who is surprised by this.
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Fri 8/11/17 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Props to the Phillies for cancelling Pete Rose's induction ceremony into their Wall of fame, because of this latest revelation. It would have happened last weekend at Citizens Bank Park.

Article from Sporting News is linked here
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Sat 9/2/17 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the latest is this--Fox Sports has fired Pete Rose from providing postseason coverage, thanks to the mess that was recently revealed.
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Sat 2/15/20 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I searched for this thread to post about Pete Rose requesting reinstatement again. This is because of the Astros scandal getting so much publicity. Here is the link to AP article

Just let it be, Pete.
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Tue 8/9/22 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I caught a bit of how the Phillies honored Pete Rose and had him in the broadcast booth, on Sunday. A reporter asked him at some point about the statutory rape claims and he blew it off by saying something like "who cares what happened 50 years ago?" Here's the article.

He is a disgrace. He was a terrific player who was so exciting to watch, but his arrogance and entitled attitude are just disgusting. The less we hear from him as a person, the better.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Thu 8/11/22 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How someone with so much talent can end up being so repulsive is an example of how fame can go to your head, and apparently other parts of the body too.

Zero respect.
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