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Can We Do This Over?
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Tue 11/12/19 11:40 pm    Post subject: Can We Do This Over? Reply with quote

And the latest negative incident to be associated with the Astros is the allegation that they employed a sophisticated sign-stealing system during...gasp...the 2017 World Series! Surprised Surprised

Please, please, please--can we have a do-over?

(1951 Jints, are you listening?)
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Thu 11/14/19 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has been an interesting week what with the awards season and now a new scandal! I am not sure how this should be addressed. I understand if this is found to be true they deserve some punishment, but think about this, the Astros are starting to be really hated for a few reasons. If it was not bad enough with the assistant GM and his fiasco, then this, and also how about Yuli Gurriel with his antics from that same World series. You could take it back to them bringing Osuna on board too. Not very good PR for that team!
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Fri 11/15/19 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, and having Zack pitch for them made me like them slightly less. I wish we still had Pearl Girl posting here to share her thoughts!

Now, former Dodger pitcher Yu Darvish is weighing in. Darvish, most people remember, was said to be tipping his pitches during the 2017 World Series but in particular, during Game 7 at Dodger Stadium, which the Astros won to clinch their first franchise world championship.

From the L.A. Times:

By DYLAN HERNANDEZ
NOV. 15, 2019 9:02 AM

He was like the Olympic athlete who finished fourth, only to learn years later that one or more of the medalists were on steroids.

Or the student denied entry into a prestigious university because his place went to the child of parents who bribed school officials.

As reports surfaced this week detailing how the Houston Astros used electronic equipment to steal signs in 2017, however, Yu Darvish wasn’t upset.

He was conflicted.

“Because I had that experience, I was able to work hard these last two years and become the person I am now,” Darvish said in Japanese in a video he uploaded to his popular YouTube channel Thursday night.

As a starting pitcher for the Dodgers that season, Darvish had a disastrous World Series against the Astros. He was charged with four runs and lasted only 1⅔ innings in a Game 3 loss. His performance in Game 7 was even worse, as he gave up five runs in an equally short start that delivered the Astros their first-ever championship.

"I feel that if I absolve myself and say it was the Astros’ fault I was bad in Game 7, in the World Series, I can’t develop as a person,” he said. “In life, I think huge failures are extremely important. I’ve had a few up to this point. The World Series was one of them. I think it will remain a point of reference for me. I’ve already learned a lot from it. So regarding that, I can’t view myself charitably. I think I have to continue to accept the results.”

Darvish is two years into a six-year, $126-million contract with the Chicago Cubs. Injuries limited him to eight games in 2018 and he started slowly again this year but recovered to post a 2.78 earned-run average in his 13 starts after the All-Star break.

He acknowledged his World Series failures have bothered him the last two years, in particular because he could never make sense of what happened.

In the immediate aftermath, Astros players said Darvish was tipping his pitches. He was never satisfied by the story. Alarmed by how the Astros reacted to his pitches in Game 3, the Dodgers carefully studied video of him and were unable to come up with any definitive conclusions. Players on that Astros team later told him they watched how he brought the ball into his glove in the set position. With that in mind, Darvish rewatched Game 7. What he saw did not match up with what he heard.

Darvish was surprised by the allegations that surfaced this week in a story by the Athletic. Four people who were with the Astros in 2017, including pitcher Mike Fiers, said the team used a camera in the outfield to steal signs at home games.

Darvish wondered about Game 7 of the World Series, which was played at Dodger Stadium.

“What’s been reported up to this point is that they used cameras at their home field, so I don’t know if there was anything like that,” Darvish said. “But what they were doing was so high-level that I can’t honestly say there’s no chance they were also doing it on the road.”

But Darvish didn’t want to overthink the possibilities.

“If you ask me if I got hit in Game 7 because they stole signs, I don’t think so,” he said. “The Astros have great players who don’t have to do that. So I think that whether or not they stole signs, the results wouldn’t have changed.”

The loss was especially devastating because he wanted to repay the Dodgers by helping them win a championship. Before his trade from the Texas Rangers, he was considering retirement. The Dodgers reignited his passion for baseball.

Overcoming the trauma marked one of the greatest triumphs of his career. Darvish pitched for the Cubs at Dodger Stadium in mid-June, his first game there since the World Series. He limited the Dodgers to one run over seven innings, striking out 10.

This was in part what Darvish was referring to when he spoke of the World Series making him the person he is now. If not for the failure, there would be no redemption.

“To return to the place where I had the worst moment of my career, which also happened to be a stadium I really liked, and to pitch as well as I did gave me a lot of confidence,” Darvish told The Times in a phone interview.

In the same interview Friday morning, he said he always maintained warm feelings for Dodgers fans.

It didn’t matter that they reviled him or sent him nasty messages through social media. It didn’t matter how much they booed him.

Some pitchers etch words or symbols into the mound before they pitch. Darvish isn’t one of them. He made an exception in his return to Dodger Stadium. Beneath the Dodgers logo, he wrote a secret message to the fans, whom he considered a valuable part of his Los Angeles experience.

“Thanks,” he scribbled.

In recent days, many of the same fans who blamed him for the World Series loss have sent him messages of apology.

“I’m not looking for that,” he said in the video he posted on YouTube. “I don’t want them to change their minds.”

Because he thinks their criticism has shaped who he is today.

Nonetheless, Darvish admitted he was disappointed to learn of the allegations against the Astros.

“The Houston Astros are an organization I really respect and they have a lot of great players,” he said.

He also shared concerns of how widespread the practice of sign-stealing might be.

Darvish recalled a game this season in which he stepped off the mound multiple times because he noticed something unusual. Batters typically have their eyes set on the pitcher. In this particular game, he observed they were looking into left-center field.

“I could have been mistaken, but maybe was placed in center field with a telescope or something who was signaling,” he said.

In this country, stealing signs is considered a part of the game. The reason the Astros’ case has caused such uproar is because of the organization’s alleged use of high-tech equipment. Stealing signs in any form is much less tolerated in Japan. Darvish viewed the practice through that cultural lens.

“What fun is [it] to hit a pitch that you know is coming?” he said. “As a pitcher, it feels weird. As a hitter, I wonder if it makes them happy. Houston won the World Series in 2017, but if they really did that in the World Series and hit like crazy and won … I couldn’t do that.”

He concluded his 14-minute video by calling on major league and Japanese teams to stop stealing signs.
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Sat 11/16/19 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm appalled and also to find out that Alex Cora and Carlos Beltran were involved? Did they really think they would get away with that - I just can't believe it.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Sat 11/16/19 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And it gets better. Emails have emerged!

Surprised
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Tue 11/19/19 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Commissioner Rob Manfred discussed the allegations and possible penalties with CBSsports.com.

There were revelations of the Astros using "buzzing devices" and whistling to communicate signs, as well.

Rolling Eyes
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Thu 11/21/19 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"but their emails" Razz
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PostPosted: Thu 11/21/19 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL! Laughing

Now, you know I'm the kind of fan that just grudgingly says there should be some punishment, but after the fact, there's nothing you can do about the outcome.

But this story has gotten uglier by the day. And watching this just made me re-live the pain of two Octobers ago.

And I'm still not over the pain of this October.
Mad
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Sat 11/23/19 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MLB confirmed it happened the way it was reported
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Sat 11/30/19 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Astro-gate: It's the story that won't go away, whether in on-line baseball pages, other media reports, or Thanksgiving discussion topics.

How far does the punishment extend?
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Sun 12/1/19 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The story will not die because it gets worse every time you hear an update. I cannot believe they would put anything in writing that could be brought up as evidence.
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Thu 12/5/19 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm telling you, I have lost so much respect for that organization. They didn't deserve that championship and they should be heavily fined and suffer other penalties.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Sat 12/14/19 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evidently this was quite the topic at the winter meetings!
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Wed 1/8/20 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Dodger ladies what do you think about the latest news that the Red Sox were involved in something similar - those are the 2 teams your guys lost the World series to. It seems kind of suspicious in many ways!
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Fri 1/10/20 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but I still think the Astros' scheme was the most blatant and it bothers me more.
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Mon 1/13/20 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard this week MLB is expected to lower the boom on the Astros - article linked here
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Mon 1/13/20 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It came down today! Here's the link

$5 million is the maximum penalty! I did not know that.

It does give me a little sense of sadistic joy to see them punished like this. And look too, Alex Cora was at the center of it and of course, he managed the Red Sox next year! It really is a shame we can't go back and do it over. It happened and it's over with - but our team got shafted!
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PostPosted: Mon 1/13/20 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! I didn't see all that coming, but good for MLB. Maybe Rob Manfred is trying to toughen his image.

It's sad to think we can't get that series back, but at least Doc can feel somewhat vindicated. And of course, Yu Darvish, who had a stellar postseason until the World Series started.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Tue 1/14/20 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dodgers released a statement today, which basically said they are making no statement about the punishment.
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Wed 1/15/20 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And like everyone is talking about, no punishment for the players involved. They do not want to take on the MLBPA. Rolling Eyes
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Wed 1/15/20 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sharing some comments from a few discussions I've had about this with other fans.

One is my brother thinks they should have vacated the championship for 2017 but since they didn't, the Astros should at least apologize to the Dodgers. Another is that the Dodger fans who were holding Yu Darvish accountable owe him an apology.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Wed 1/15/20 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, as you recall, I was less harsh on Darvish than I was on our hitters in Game 7. The talk at that time was about him tipping pitches and how could he do that in the World Series...but, what did we know back then.
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sunnyblue



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PostPosted: Mon 1/20/20 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope this unites and reignites the Dodgers passion to win again this year! Here's an article about Jose Altuve and Alex Bregman talking about their scam
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PostPosted: Mon 1/20/20 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not much remorse, just denial about the buzzers.

Meanwhile, from the L.A. Times:

From the L.A. Times:

"Cheating Scandal Leaves Dodgers Fans Feeling Tagged Out at Home"

By EMMANUEL MORGAN, HAILEY BRANSON-POTTS
JAN. 18, 2020 5 AM

It’s so difficult for lifelong Dodgers fan Joseph Daniels to talk about that magical October night in 2017, when his boys in blue clinched a spot in their first World Series in 29 years.

Daniels was there, at Wrigley Field, for Game 5 of the National League Championship Series against the Chicago Cubs. He was part of that blue-clad Dodgers crowd that just wanted to bask in the euphoria, that chanted “We’re not leaving!” in the stands even after the stadium lights went down.

“It was surreal that we were actually going,” said Daniels, a 32-year-old diesel mechanic from Crestline. “I was born in 1987, and the last one we won was in 1988. Watching baseball that long and never getting that far — it was a great feeling.”

Now, it’s a gut punch.

It never made sense to Daniels that his Dodgers went on to lose the World Series to the Houston Astros. That is, until this week, when Major League Baseball released a report detailing how the Astros illegally used technology to steal opposing teams’ pitching signs in home games during the 2017 season.

Managers were fired; fines and additional punishments were issued. Other shoes — or baseball cleats — are likely to fall.

But that’s not enough for many Dodgers fans, especially after they learned that the Boston Red Sox, who beat the Dodgers in the 2018 World Series, also are under investigation for alleged cheating.

“There needs to be some kind of asterisk on those years, 2017 and 2018,” Daniels said. “No one won.”

Dodgers fans say they were robbed — of both sweet victory and of the steep cost of those World Series tickets — and many believe that Major League Baseball should strip the Astros of their championship.

On Tuesday, the L.A. City Council is scheduled to vote on a resolution demanding that MLB award both the 2017 and 2018 titles to Los Angeles.

“Our role is to raise our voice for something that we feel is a moral crisis,” said City Councilman Gil Cedillo, one of the sponsors of the resolution. “You see the challenges we have in Washington when we have people that don’t play by the rules. We don’t want to make cheating the new normal.“

Cedillo, whose district includes Dodger Stadium, and Councilman Paul Koretz each wrote separate, individual resolutions this week, without knowing the other man had done so. After they realized what had happened, they came together and co-sponsored the current resolution.

“We can’t allow the game to be treated this way with such an egregious example of cheating and not have a dogged response,” Koretz said. “I think this resolution makes the point that this is not just some people talking. The whole city officially feels wounded and offended.”

Desiree Garcia, co-owner of the Dodgers fan group Pantone 294 — named after the official shade of Dodger blue — said the last few days have been a roller coaster of emotions. They’re angry. They’re sad. They’re in denial.

“We have the strong, loyal fan base,” Garcia said. “The majority of us have grown up watching baseball with our grandparents on TV. It’s one of those things we’ve all grown up with and learned to love, and when baseball is affected it’s not just a Dodger thing. It’s a fan thing in general.”

But Garcia, and many others, she said, are just trying to stay positive and focus on the approaching season. She hopes the whole ugly situation just fires up the Dodgers, “lights a fire under their butts” and propels them to the victory they’ve deserved for so long, she said.

Garcia said devastated fans need to keep in perspective that the players themselves are hurting as well.

MLB has told teams to not comment on the situation. That did not stop players across the majors, including Dodgers outfielder Cody Bellinger and pitcher Alex Wood, from lamenting on Twitter.

“For the sake of the game, I hope this isn’t true,” Bellinger tweeted. “If true, there needs to be major consequences to the players. That completely ruins the integrity of the game!!!”

Joshua Zonni, 21, of Chino Hills, said his heart broke as he sat in Dodger Stadium during Game 7 of the 2017 World Series and watched the Astros celebrate on the field.

It was the first time he had seen his team play for a championship. The Dodgers’ 1988 World Series victory happened 10 years before he was born.

In 2017, Zonni said, he respected the Astros and “gave them props” for having the better team. Not anymore.

Zonni said he thinks MLB should give Los Angeles the title. Barring that, he said, the Astros should be stripped of the championship at “bare minimum.” But the damage is done, he said: The Astros robbed him and fellow Dodgers fans of a possibly once-in-a-lifetime experience, and that’s something they can’t get back.

“Anyone would agree that when a competitor cheats, the organization who plays fair is entitled to the championship,” Zonni said. “But either way, it will never be the same as watching your team win it live.”

Daniel Juarez, another Dodgers fan, sees it a little differently.

Juarez, 24, has worked at the Dodgers Clubhouse in Universal CityWalk for about two years and remembers how packed the fan apparel store was during the World Series. The scandal, he said, is unfortunate, especially since fans worked hard to be able to afford the expensive tickets.

Still, the North Hollywood resident doesn’t think L.A. should be awarded the championship.

“We know we deserve it, but it’s over with and done,” Juarez said. “Dodgers fans are the most loyal fans in baseball. We want a ring, but there’s nothing we can do about it. If they vacate the title, that will be justice for the fans and Los Angeles.”

Ethel Alvavrez, a 35-year-old fan from Whittier, agreed.

“You can’t do a redo, and the teams have changed since then,” she said. “I think Houston getting reprimanded is good, and they should also vacate the title.”

Daniels, of Crestline, said he too doesn’t want a 2017 or 2018 World Series trophy.

“I don’t like handouts,” he said. “I want the feeling when we win a World Series to be the most exciting moment of my life.”

That night in Chicago, when a World Series win seemed as if it was a given, Daniels had roamed the stadium in a state of pure joy with his uncle, Albert Bujanda of Yucaipa, who carried a homemade sign reading: “Airfare Cali to Chicago = $700. Hotel Room = $300. Ticket to NLCS = $600. Watching Your Boys in Blue Clinch: Priceless!”

A few days later, Daniels attended a World Series game at Dodger Stadium with his father and his sister-in-law. Their left-field tickets cost about $1,200 apiece. The Dodgers lost that night, which hurt badly enough before the cheating news.

“That’s money we’re not going to get back,” Daniels said. “The good thing is I can say I got to go to the World Series with my dad. But it makes it hurt even more.”
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Tue 1/21/20 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I hope this unites and reignites the Dodgers passion to win again this year!


Well, it may have reignited my passion, because you most likely remember my reaction after this last postseason and the Dodgers' early exit.

As for today's news, the Los Angeles City Council has voted to ask MLB to award the Dodgers the 2017 world championship.

TRUST ME, no Dodger fan I know personally, or via social media, wants this. People are upset and angry but they just want the Astros' title vacated. They don't want the Dodgers to be handed anything they did not win on the field.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Fri 1/24/20 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas Keuchel has gone on the record to apologize. That's a step forward.
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forloveofthegame



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PostPosted: Wed 1/29/20 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This made me crack up a bit today - article from nbcsports.com
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PostPosted: Wed 1/29/20 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know, right? Wink

So much to say...the guys want an apology, then closure.
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PostPosted: Fri 2/7/20 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hall of Famer Henry Aaron thinks the Astros should have gotten more punishment - article from NBC Sports
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PostPosted: Fri 2/7/20 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm appreciating everyone who's speaking out to come down hard on the right side of this controversy.

Even still, more details have been revealed[url].

Meanwhile, A.J. Hinch is acting contrite. He [url=https://www.mlb.com/news/aj-hinch-discusses-astros-on-mlb-network]admits he should have done more
, and all this leaves me wondering about his friendship with Doc. I still remember the pain of that 2017 offseason when Hinch stayed at Doc's in Encinitas for George Springer's wedding, which must have been difficult for the Dodgers manager to process with the loss being so fresh.
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