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Baseball's Black Eye
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dodgerblue6



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
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Location: San Diego CA - deep in the heart of SoCal

PostPosted: Thu 8/11/05 7:58 am    Post subject: Baseball's Black Eye Reply with quote

Like it or not, the issue of steroids just won't go away.

Even with Barry Bonds out for the season, even with Jose Canseco's book being old news, it managed to rear its ugly head again with Rafael Palmeiro testing positive. (Talk about potent--imagine that, a combo of Viagra and 'roids?)

Several of you have voiced particularly strong opinions about MLB's failure to toughen up on enforcement, and I'm sure have comments to make about this particular episode.

Bill Plaschke wrote this article in the L.A. Times a couple of weeks ago that is an interesting read:


"Baseball Hides Its Complicity in the Crime"

In the stands were 39,044 people who thought they were paying good money to witness genuine history. Baseball knew different.

On their feet were 39,044 people in a three-minute standing ovation for a player who had supposedly reached a milestone with character and class. Baseball knew different.

Cameras flashed and fireworks exploded on that July night in Seattle in an apparently worthy embrace of Baltimore's Rafael Palmeiro as he doubled into the left-field corner for his 3,000th hit.

Baseball knew different. But baseball wasn't telling.

While its fans were keeping tradition, baseball was keeping a secret, deceiving those who trusted it most, betraying those who loved it best. Baseball knew Rafael Palmeiro was dirty for more than two months before Monday's 10-game steroid suspension.

Baseball knew he had tested positive for a drug so strong, it once put hair on the chins of East German women.

Baseball knew he was performing with a body containing a substance that was not only against the rules, but against the law.

Yet baseball said nothing as Palmeiro's record-chasing presence sold thousands of tickets, drew hundreds of thousands of TV viewers, and even induced a congratulatory call from President Bush.

Baseball said nothing until after the All-Star game, after the 3,000 hit, after the Hall of Fame induction ceremonies.

Palmeiro is a cheater.

But in hiding his crime, baseball may be the bigger cheat.

"Baseball wanted to fill the stadiums, set the records, smack the ball around," said Steven Ungerleider, an Oregon researcher and an anti- doping expert. "It's shocking, it's pathetic, it's appalling."

The saddest part is, baseball was just following its own misguided rules, the delay in the announcement being part of the drug agreement between the league and union.

Shows you how much either of them wants to clear up steroids.

"This cries out desperately for a policy and procedure that is transparent," said Dr. Gary Wadler, a New York University professor and steroid expert.
"Right now, I think baseball just wishes this problem would disappear."

From the time Palmeiro tested positive in May, until the announcement of a suspension Monday, his problems essentially did disappear.

As with Olympians, who live under the sports world's toughest drug testing
laws, Palmeiro's drug sample was divided into two containers. When the first sample tested positive, the second sample was tested.

At that point, if an Olympian's samples are both positive, the athlete is immediately suspended for two years pending appeal, and an announcement is made.

But baseball players are allowed to go through the entire appeals process in secret, and no announcement is made until the judgment is final. So it takes baseball two months to inform the paying public while it takes the Olympic folks … would you believe one week?

Last summer, in the Athens Olympics' most prestigious event, Russian Irina Korzhanenko won the women's shotput at the ancient site in Olympia. But she tested positive for the same substance that was found in Palmeiro, a particularly potent steroid known as stanolozol.

A week after her event, with the Olympics still in full stride, at the worst possible moment for such bad publicity, Korzhanenko was publicly suspended and her gold medal was stripped.

While baseball waits until the best parts of its summer party are over.

"We believe strongly if baseball took this seriously, they would honor the WADA code," said Ungerleider, referring to the World Anti-Doping Agency. As currently constructed, baseball's appeal process not only hides product defects to the consumer, but also the competition.

Think opponents would have treated Palmeiro differently if they knew he was appealing a positive steroid test? Maybe pitch the old guy a little closer?

"Baseball has been cheating, and now they're living on borrowed time," Ungerleider said. Indeed, with the words, "consumer fraud" suddenly bouncing into play, an impatient Congress will take a closer look at baseball's drug policy, and don't be surprised if Palmeiro will be the straw that breaks the agreement's back.

If they allow one of their best players to knowingly play dirty for two months, how can we again trust them? And how can Congress allow them to continue to sell smoke and mirrors?

(Of course, lawmakers will have to do a hook slide around President Bush, that noted steroids warrior who refused to condemn Palmeiro after the suspension because a spokesman noted that Palmeiro was the president's friend.)

"Baseball should get out of this business, they don't have the expertise to do it, they need to let someone else handle it," Wadler said of drug regulation. "They hire somebody to build the stadiums and grow the grass, they need to hire experts to test for drugs."

Until then, coming to a stadium near you, a game-winning homer hit by a juiced batter knowingly taking his last hacks before suspension.

Or, perhaps, a World Series hero who, it turns out later, tested positive in August.

How can baseball insist its players be honest if it doesn't demand the same of itself?
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Francine
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PostPosted: Fri 8/12/05 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my two cents worth. Palmiero lied under oath, or so it seems. I read Canseco's book and where all I got out of it was how he wants to teach and educate everyone on how to live longer, look younger and be stronger, through steroid use.....................he also named players who "used". Canseco claims he would inject Pailmero with shots of the stuff.........My question is, if Raffy did use, at one time, but appeared in the hearings and denied it, how do you get caught? How stupid can you be?

I'm sorry but I have no tolerance and feel he should not be voted into the Hall after he retires..........

I was not impressed with the book and I know we had this discussion on the other board and many of you refused to resd it or pay money for it. But I wanted to read it for myself with all that was going on and I'm glad I did.........especially now.
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DianaPrince
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PostPosted: Mon 8/15/05 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Francine, you might want to check out these books. They're more informative than Jose's tell all. These books are actually looking to inform rather than make money and be sure the authors aren't forgotten.

Juicing the Game by Howard Bryant

The Juice: The Real Story of Baseball's Drug Problems by Will Carroll
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Francine
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PostPosted: Mon 8/15/05 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kristin, I will look into them after I'm done with Billy Bean's book.

Jose truely believes he is educating us Rolling Eyes what a jerk!
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teks tangibles
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PostPosted: Mon 8/15/05 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the whole testing policy is woefully inadequate. Not only did we just witness this whole circus with Palmiero, but the actual testing does not catch a whole class of drugs...human growth hormones...which can only be determined with blood tests. The ways to cheat get more sophisticated and the policies in place are barely adequate to cover what was going on in the "Jose Canseco" era. MLB truly did turn a blind eye for years. The owners made money and so did the players. They obviously were not all swayed by the harm they might do to their bodies. And good old Jose comes along to tell us all how useful steriods can be in prolonging your life and making you "younger". Oh...I couldn't wait to read his book....but I wouldn't pay a dime for it. I waited for it to come to me through the library for quite a while. He is a despicable human being. I don't know where to draw the line between his ego and the truth.

He was on our local sports radio recently and started talking about his next book. He also went on about how there would soon be clones in major cities. We all laughed. They are going to hide clones in MAJOR CITIES...so we can't tell them like in a small borough? PLEEZE...

What is really sad is watching certain players who seem to have dropped off and you wonder if they were users who have stopped...and others who seem to be doing better than one would expect and wonder if they've found an undetectable way to cheat. It sure takes away from the enjoyment of the game.

Personally, I would be very, very upset if I found out anyone on the Red Sox used any performance enhancing drugs.

Ruth
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Francine
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PostPosted: Mon 8/15/05 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Ruth. The sad thing is Jose was so mentally abused as a child and an adult from his father. Reading how he could never please the man, no matter how good he was, made me relate it to the fathers we met in little league this season.........I'm not saying it was an excuse for his decision to use steroids but it sure seemed to attribute to it.............

I agree it has taken the enjoyment out of the game but I now ask, do we really want to know who took them in the past? It's all over now.........However how stupid was Pailmero?????? How stupid can he have been?
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DianaPrince
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PostPosted: Tue 8/16/05 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, pretty soon we'll hearing Raffy's side of the story. I wonder what he has to say for himself. There was a joke about Raffy waiting for his lawyer to write the story for him and I was thinking about bringing it over here. But then I thought about how people could say the same thing about Jason so I'm not going to speculate on whether or not Raffy's story will be factual when it comes out.
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DianaPrince
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PostPosted: Tue 8/16/05 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teks tangibles wrote:
I believe the whole testing policy is woefully inadequate.


They should let us do it "Oops, Mr. Jeter, did I stab you too hard? I'm ever so sorry"

I seem to remember an old article out of Philly stating that nearly every player on the Phils used something except for Scott Rolen and one or two other players. This was before the steroid policy was in place and Rico Brogna was still on the team. This article was talking about the legal and unbanned stuff but it makes you think if they're using them why not take the next step?

There was an article stating the Congress feels all sports should have the same policy and I agree. I'll see if I can find it.
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DianaPrince
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PostPosted: Tue 8/16/05 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here it is
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Francine
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PostPosted: Tue 8/16/05 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok then..........if they nearly were all taken something (except Rolen) why was it they didn't have the best of seasons and Rolen did........that kills that theory,lol I mean if Steroids were supposed to make them stronger, and play better................lol

Can you see Mark Portugal taking steriods? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing It's too funny to even type.......
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DianaPrince
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PostPosted: Tue 8/16/05 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Francine wrote:
Ok then..........if they nearly were all taken something (except Rolen) why was it they didn't have the best of seasons and Rolen did........that kills that theory,lol I mean if Steroids were supposed to make them stronger, and play better................lol

Can you see Mark Portugal taking steriods? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing It's too funny to even type.......


I recall Scott saying that at that point in his life he didn't consider it because he was young and his body was still growing and such but he wouldn't rule it out later in life.
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DianaPrince
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PostPosted: Fri 8/19/05 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another rumor that is sure to displease many on this board. What's your take on Timlin's comment?

I know how you guys must be feeling. The next person who suggests that Jason is the one player on the Phils taking roids gets punched in the nose. I mean it.
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teks tangibles
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PostPosted: Sat 8/20/05 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rumor on Johnny has not really bothered me at all since I don't believe it's true. So I don't feel the need to stress over it. We'll see. I would be surprised.

Ruth
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dodgerblue6



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: San Diego CA - deep in the heart of SoCal

PostPosted: Sat 8/20/05 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone remember that rumor (didn't it come from Canseco?) earlier about Wilson Alvarez being on 'roids? I mean, even he was laughing at it, saying, "How can anyone look at me and think that..." Laughing




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"The Dodgers have always occupied an enormous place in the history of the game. If the Yankees are the most successful team in baseball history, the Dodgers are the most essential. Their legacy is unique."

-Baseball Hall of Fame
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soxygirl18
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PostPosted: Sat 8/20/05 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm tired of the Johnny rumors. Who even starts these things??? On nyyfans it was like
"well I heard from a friend who has a co-worker whose cousin's friend works for mlb....."

It's all BS. Johnny has already had two tests this season. I would also be surprised.

This post made me laugh though. Laughing
from nyyfans:

"I want to be Johnny Damon's lawyer..... the easiest rebuttal ever !

"Your honor, steroids make men LOSE hair. Now, look at my client. The defense rests.""
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dodgerblue6



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: San Diego CA - deep in the heart of SoCal

PostPosted: Tue 8/23/05 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Robinson has a change of heart about Palmeiro:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050823&content_id=1180780&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Interesting, and I'm sure many will agree.
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"The Dodgers have always occupied an enormous place in the history of the game. If the Yankees are the most successful team in baseball history, the Dodgers are the most essential. Their legacy is unique."

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DianaPrince
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PostPosted: Wed 8/24/05 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linda, I was just coming to post that same article. He's right - it certainly would get the attention of the players. I say go ahead and do it. They're all dirty stats anyway. Might as well get rid of them all. Facing that penalty might make guys think twice.
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Francine
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PostPosted: Wed 8/24/05 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that the stats seem to be "dirty" and if he's the poster child for having his stats wiped out the players might think twice....However, I'm sure he's not alone and down the road we may be very surprised who else tests possative. I can't help but think alot is being hushed..........I feel they had it out for Pailmero and the others who spoke out and they are being watched closely.

As far as Damon goes........I too would be very surprised if he tested possative..........he's one of the hottest players at the moment and I'm sure he's being monitored closely as well. But then again who really knows?
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Fri 8/26/05 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Francine, thought you'd like this (lead article on one of my favorite websites):

http://www.baseballsavvy.com/
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DianaPrince
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PostPosted: Fri 8/26/05 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hehe, I just bought Mrs. C's copy of Playboy to send to the soldier that I adopted. I'm slightly surprised that players are risking their um...manhoods...to take steroids. Most men wouldn't like it if they shriveled up and would do anything to avoid it Laughing
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Fri 8/26/05 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But that's why Raffy needed Viagra, to offset it. Smile
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DianaPrince
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PostPosted: Fri 8/26/05 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dodgerblue6 wrote:
But that's why Raffy needed Viagra, to offset it. Smile


Laughing Laughing Laughing
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JTT
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PostPosted: Fri 8/26/05 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, this is my first post here - what a great idea for a site, by the way!

That was a very interesting article by Bill Plaschke. I'm glad to see someone coming out and saying out loud the emperor has no clothes.

The thing is, like you mentioned, we don't even know now who to celebrate as true, excellent athletes, and who to have our kids emulate in the past and still even in the present. It's really sad. Where do you draw the asterisk line in the record books? How can we ever know the truth? We can't.

There are a lot of rumors circling about, I've been hearing them ever since the Raffy deal... up to 50 players have tested positive, a couple HUGE names that you wouldn't expect (I'm sure this is where Johnny D. and Clemens come in..) but we'll just have to wait and see - I wish they would come out with any results asap if there are any. I really doubt Johnny Damon did that... I mean, physically he just doesn't seem like he's been doing it (or hasn't been doing it right - LOL! just kidding!).

Plus he's been a real staunch critic of the current policies, but if you look at Palmeiro's 'pointing' at Congress as a smokescreen and what eventually happened, I guess nothing that is said or appears to be should surprise us anymore when it comes to steroid use.
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DianaPrince
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PostPosted: Fri 8/26/05 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh no...not another Sox fan Rolling Eyes

LoL, just kidding of course - I'm the resident clown Wink

Welcome to the board and don't forget to post in the "How I became a fan" thread.

I agree with you that there could be so much smoke and mirrors out there. I know a lot of keep telling ourselves "not my fave player" and I hope none of the hearts on this board get broken.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Sat 9/3/05 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Associated Press:

"A day after inserting earplugs to drown out fans, Rafael Palmero had second thoughts. 'Maybe it wasn't the right thing to do. I've never been in a situation where I'm getting booed so badly and I just really don't know how to handle it.' Palmeiro inserted earplugs after he was loudly booed during his first at-bat in the Orioles' loss at Toronto on Tuesday night."

Hey, there's a solution for the Phillies players...earplugs. Laughing Laughing
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teks tangibles
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PostPosted: Sat 9/3/05 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking for him in the Orioles dugout last night at Fenway.....

He wasn't playing, but I thought I would at least see him sitting in there, but alas, no Raffy sighting. Then I heard that he had flown back to Baltimore for an MRI. If he thinks he got booed in Toronto (not full), imagine a packed (34,000...we're small) Fenway Pahk....booing loudly. Trust me on this....it is LOUD. Well, he's not there....

I really would like to hear if he has some explanation, but from all I've heard there isn't one that would reasonably explain away his situation. I'm sure he's pissed that the substance was leaked, as it should not have been, but he most likely would have gone on pointing the finger and saying he didn't do steroids, that it was some banned substance that happened to slip through in a supplement. Tough times, Raffy. You lied and got caught.

Ruth
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DianaPrince
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PostPosted: Mon 9/12/05 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Juicy has a chance to be an interesting read. I was reading the back cover at work the other day and just from that I felt kinda bad for Jessica Canseco. Of course it's all about making money but it's also a new perspective.

Quote:
When nineteen-year-old Hooters trainee Jessica Sekely meets Jose Canseco -- one of the most famous baseball players of his time -- she falls in love with the slugger and everything about him. He is larger than life, from his bulging muscles and multimillion-dollar contract to his huge homes and hot cars. And he is as handsome a man as she has ever seen. But his sprawling house in Florida becomes her gilded cage when Jose is on the road, hitting home runs and bedding women in American League cities from Anaheim to Boston. Jessica blames herself and does everything she can to keep Jose faithful—nose jobs, new breast implants, and even going so far as to bring other women into their home for threesomes. But it wasn't enough. It was never enough.

Through it all, she breaks through the icy stares of the wives and girlfriends of Jose’s teammates and learns to honor the code of the baseball sorority -- If you see a ballplayer with another woman, keep your mouth shut!

While Jose, author of Juiced -- the #1 New York Times bestseller about steroids in baseball -- seems intent on self-destruction, Jessica willingly goes along for the ride. Their turbulent relationship careens from steroids to pregnancy, from marriage to the birth of a precious baby daughter, from private investigators to divorce attorneys -- with a black eye. This is the story of a beautiful young woman who falls in love with a hugely successful professional athlete, and who becomes addicted to him and to everything that his success seems to represent. It is also the story of a woman who spends the better part of ten years trying to beat that addiction, and who finds her true self in the process. Jessica Canseco's story is for every woman who has ever fallen for the wrong man. But unlike many such tales, this one has a happy ending.
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dodgerblue6



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PostPosted: Mon 9/12/05 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That book sounds like it's got nothing on Cyndy Garvey's expose! That woman ripped into all the stereotypes and gave a little bit of background on how the press builds up this image of a player, and in her case her husband and how he enjoyed that image despite his living contrary to that.

One thing about her, though, is that even though she was pegged as a dumb blonde, Cyndy wasn't so dumb. She came across as educated and insightful. She realized her own background contributed to her being attracted to Steve. I think the whole experience drove her psycho, though. Rolling Eyes

I probably should have put this in the baseball books thread, but it it's only peripherally related and not good enough to be considered one. Smile
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DianaPrince
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PostPosted: Wed 9/21/05 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poor, Barroid. His life is so hard.
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DianaPrince
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PostPosted: Fri 9/23/05 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raffy turns stool pigeon.
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